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scamfreetown
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I met a girl at a club that does sports and fun stuff, she said that she was a “financial advisor” and she asked me if I wanted to visit her at work and see what she does. I went and there was a meeting or some sorts of a lecture where everyone was dressed well and had fake smiles just like the fake money they BRAGGED about. I had no idea what was going on but I tried to believe that girl because she looked trustable, then I talked with one of the marketing directors. The lecture was about how you could make so much money and how advancement was so prominent in this business. World Financial Group is bunch of liars who don’t want to work and use people to make money from nothing. They wanted me to pay $125 for a background check, I mean what multi billion dollar company has to get there prospective employees to pay for a back ground check, and can't you get those from the police for free. Then they wanted $275 to get my license and a book. They did everything perfectly, too perfectly. It was with no doubt a cult where everyone believes that they are making $250,000 and nobody can wipe the smile off their faces long enough to find out different. WFG is a joke don't deal with them and don't become an occult practice yourself it won't get you anywhere. All what they were after is your money and phone book to call your friends and do the same with them. In case you missed the thread on Primerica, they are basically the same maybe worse. I’m Happy to say that I recognized this scam but that cost me $125 of the money that I worked hard for. |
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trailmix
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I hope you reported them, or are going to report them to the better business bureau. Even though they are not members of the BBB you can still file a complaint: http://www.betterbusinessbureau.ca/Complaints/Index.aspx Glad to hear you got out of it! |
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scamfreetown
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Thank you very much, I have just filled out a complaint form. thanks again |
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kbs
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Don't you think you should have gone to their open house first and not forked out the $$$$? It takes work in anything to make good coin the problem with people today is they expect to make $250,000 or whatever over night. We're too impatient when it comes to that sort of thing. Judging from your post I'd say that you're a "glass is half empty" kinda person. Maybe you should have looked at them from a client perspective first. Too bad about your $$$$, try to get it back. |
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scamfreetown
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You sound like you are one of them, that's the way they talk if anyone find out about there lies, half empty glass, or you are not open minded, or you don't have dreams, and that kind of crap. that's what I heared from the my "recruiters the **BLEEP** family and losers around them are the only ones who are making money out of this scam. you are talking like you're not one of them but I know that you are. I am trying to get money back but its not about the money it's I don't want to see that kind of scam in my wonderful city. thank you for replying and please get yourself a job like everybody else and stop trying to live on other people's hard work mony. |
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kbs
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Wow! You are one angry dude. I do have a job and I only do WFG on the side ie: weekends. Their strategies work best with families and homeowners so you might not have fit the demographic. BTW some people do have to pay before they get a job. ie: realtors, lawyers and such so please don't make the false assertion that paying $$$ before you begin employment is a scam. Although you know what they say about lawyers...... |
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scamfreetown
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You have no right to judge me, you are just a junior liar from WFG. I dare you to tell me what WFG do, what do they sale and how. thier only competant is primarica (which is just another scam). and don't compare yourself to lawyers or any other other people that serve their community, WFG is just a scam trying to make money without work or just sale bad products to poor people who have financial problems. I blieve that you're just a biginner with them, my advise to you is try to talk to the bigger liar you're dealing with and ask him or her (what is exactley we do and how) and you will see how they will go around and around and never give an answer, or if you wanna be another liar that's your problem, but I'm telling you that this scam will never last and the midchaut kids are preparing their villas in miami for the day when everybody find out about them and they will be laughing out loud at you. |
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kbs
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Well aside from helping people pay off their mortgage faster, investing in seg funds, mutual funds, saving for retirement, helping families put together plans to pay for their children's college funds, RRSP's, debt repayment and the like WFG doesn't do much. You also fail to realize that they are affiliated with the banks, insurance companies and financial institutions so to say that they are a scam is a bit much. They are basically just an affiliate, if WFG shut down tomorrow their clients would still be OK because they do not have any of their own products, they use places like TD Canada Trust, RBC, AIC, AGF, and the like. If I were you I would have had the girl from the club draw you up a quotation first, thus showing you some of the stragegies available and then seeing if you were interested, not the other way around. She goofed. Their competition does not striclty involve primerica, there is another company on the horizon that offers the same set of services named Legacy Capital Management. Now if you have an issue with people being taught how to pay their mortgages off faster, especially since we are now being locked into 40 yr ones, with the use of the banks techniques well then you have a unique problem, most people might want to see how it's done. Judging from the content of your posts you never took the time to investigate and have a quote done up for you. Chalk it up to life experience and quit being so bitter, life's not that bad. http://www.investmentexecutive.com/client/en/News/DetailNews.asp?Id=35020&cat=29&IDSection=29&p |
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scamfreetown
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All what you've talked about is bull **BLEEP**, they never reach with client to the point of giving away their advise or "plan" untill they pay lot of money for it and if you look around you you will see that their are lots of other offers from TD or other companies which are much better than what WFG trying to sale to people and families in the name of helping them. their rates and plans (if you ever reach to that point) is much higher than the marcket, and they trap you in a long term plan than you will never be able to get out from untill you pay all you savings. so basically you're ripped off for life. If you wanna make a good financial plan for your life just shop around and I bet you will find so many good deal instead of being ripped of by liars. I can tell that you're only looking at the picture of one of the midchaut kids that hanging on their office wall playing golf with big writing beside it (I MAKE 500,000 A YEAR) and you just wanna be like him someday. and, once again I dare you to tell me how and I bet that you don't know you're just repeating what they told you to say. well my friend, you're just a greedy person who's dreaming of being rich without working hard, and you're calling me bitter??? you make me laugh. |
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kbs
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I rest my case. You didn't get them to do up a quote for you. I have no aspiration of making $500,000/yr, I just think that some of the strategies are really neat and I think people deserve to know they are available for the taking. I don't know where you come up with this idea that you've got to fork out a butt load of $$$ to have them draw up a plan for you. Do you know how the banks use the HELOC that they offer customers? Do you know that it doesn't benefit them like it should. WFG and a few other organizations help people take advantage of those sorts of things. If you don't want to that's fine, I'll help someone else cut their monthly mortgage payment in half. Now you dared me to tell you how....OK I'll tell you how. The Banks offer what is called the HELOC, Home Equity Line of Credit the normal person takes advantage of this and uses the extra cash to take a vacation, revovate their house etc, which keeps them in perpetual debt. Does this sound like something that a financial institution should be doing to it's clientelle? Because the HELOC allows you to separate your interest payments and principle payments you are only required to pay the interest freeing up the principle payments. If you invest those other payments over the long haul becasue of compound interest you'll have some good coin saved up and be able to pay your house off sooner and still have cash in the bank. Now I don't see the banks advertising this to the regular home owners so it's a slight issue. Please stop being ignorant and bitter, move on. BTW the mortgage manager of TD Canada uses this technique, if it's good enough for him, I think it can benefit the average person. |
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scamfreetown
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Can you please be polite first and then open your mind just a little bit. it is so obviouse that WFG trying to convince people to invest their HELOC money with certain american companies with lower interest than the market and sale them expensive insurance policies to protect these investments and WFG get paid really good commision, (up to $5000) for each fool they bring in, and the midchaut basterds get the biggest portion, those companies love dealing WFG because they make these foolish people sign contracts for life, so they cut off people's motgage to have but on the other hand you have the HELOC with the interest, and banks (as everybody knows) would love to give loans to poeple, so in this case people are loosing money or actually ripped off by what WFG is doing for them, and they use you and other liars to advertise for there scam as WE HELP FAMILIES, or WE ARE FINANCIAL ADVISORS. I'm not gonna lie to you I almost fell into this trap when Zayal brought me in then darrell **BLEEP**and cameron **BLEEP** added more lies and tried to fool me with it (they messed up with the wrong guy), but now I'm trying to tell people the truth about WFG or any similar liars. well, it seems that you know nothing about financing or money managment and that's a tipical WFG representative, your job is lie to people and bring them to meeting on tuesday or thursday at 7 pm and then the midchaut liars take care of the rest. after all this if you told me that WFG is not a scam or they help people you are just a big stupid liar. |
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trailmix
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kbs wrote: The Banks offer what is called the HELOC, Home Equity Line of Credit the normal person takes advantage of this and uses the extra cash to take a vacation, revovate their house etc, which keeps them in perpetual debt. Does this sound like something that a financial institution should be doing to it's clientelle? Because the HELOC allows you to separate your interest payments and principle payments you are only required to pay the interest freeing up the principle payments. If you invest those other payments over the long haul becasue of compound interest you'll have some good coin saved up and be able to pay your house off sooner and still have cash in the bank. Hate to jump in to the fray here, but I have a question about this, or rather I hope you will clarify what you are saying. So as an example, say I have this line of credit with my bank. I use 4000 dollars to buy something for my house. I then pay back my line of credit, interest only each month and take the money that I would have paid back in principal and invest it with your company? By doing this I get some 'great' interest rate that will more than offset the interest I am going to be paying to the bank at say 8.25%? Is that the idea? |
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scamfreetown
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They wont tell you what kind of interest you gonna get, but I knew from people who got involved with them that it was much lower than what other companies give, and fixed for 15 to 20 years and WFG made them by insurance policies from another company "to protect this investment" for the same number of years. then WFG take their commission from these companies as an award for these great deals they brought them, the biggest share goes to the midchaut assholes and they through a bone to the repesentative who convinced this poor family that they are helping them, then leave them alone with this huge financial institutes, having their money that they took from the bank as a loan (HELOC), paying iterests and paying the insurance company for the next 20 years. So if you ever met one of the WFG LIARS keep in mind that they wanna take your money to give it others and then laugh at you or reqtuit you to lie to other people and do the same with them and so on. so what you wanna do is give them finger then spit on his or her face, and blieve me, they would smile and never care because they got used to it. |
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Puck
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Did the alarm bells not sound when WFG said they needed $125.00 for a background check? WFG like Amway and the rest of the get rich quick scams prey off the weak and venerable. However in the case of WFG they take people for a lot more than cleaning products. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but you should have known better than to be taken in by a scam artist telling you you could earn half a million per year working from home. As for KBS, if you had any scruples yourself you would not be defending a company such as WFG. |
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kbs
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Of course I'm going to defend them. Name me another organization that helps put people in touch with strategies that only the wealthy can access? I'm not a fan of they way that the girl tried to get "scamfreetown" on her team to build her business. IMO she should have sat down with him, drawn him up a quote so he could clearly see what the overall befits were and then proceeded if there was mutual interest. Yeah, she toally dropped the ball, I'll admit, but I still fail to see where their services can't benefit the average Joe and you failed to provide any proof that they can't or won't. |
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scamfreetown
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You keep saying "HELP" people, why don't you tell the midchaut fags to teach some other word because this one is not working any more. you can't scam rich people because they have really financial advisers, so you chsoe to scam poor people who can't pay for financial advises (which they can get free from government financial organizations) and tell them that that I will "HELP" you and make you a plan for free then they go with the scam procedure above. so basically they are using poor families not helping them, and their tools to do that is people like (ksb). when I first was brought in by Zayal I went to her office where she put the word DREAM on her wall with big letters trying to make people think that she can make them get their dreams, then she send me to Darrell **BLEEP**who by the way yesterday called me and was threatening me if I don't stop mentioning his name he will tell the police on me, anyway, after introducing me to cameron **BLEEP** who looks realy retarted, darrell sat with me and gave me a a blank form and said your first lesson for you to be a financial adviser is write me at least 30 names of your family and friends with their ages, Phone numbers, and Adresses if possible. so I told him don't you have to show me what you are trying to sale them first, then he started to talk about helping them to reach their dream and cut their modgage to half and all that crap you hear from them. so I thought I would give him a chance and I made him meet with my best friend and I found out he was trying to get reqruit him as well, them I made my research and I found out about all the scam above. so I asked him to return my $125 back because I quit he said its was non refundable and was telling me that I'm closed minded and have no dreams. so please if you were an "average joe" kind of people just keep up the good hard work take care of your family and friends and don't let greedy people like kbs or the midchaut fags step up on your shoulders. |
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trailmix
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whoa. Using terms like 'retarded' and 'fags' isn't going to get anyone on your side. I'm not saying it's not a scam and that you weren't treated badly but it IS poor form to malign people by name in a forum, sure mention the company or whatever but the name calling etc is really not right. |
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scamfreetown
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I Apologize, thank you for the great website. |
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spud
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Trail is right you are not doing yourself any favors by potty mouthing this WFG sales person. Having said that, I have to say I totally agree with everything you have to say about World Financial Group. People need to be very careful of anyone who involved with WFG I was approached a few years back by a guy I used to play hockey with. He told me of this “business opportunity” he had come across that could make me rich. You can guess the rest! WFG is basically vertical marketing operation. Only instead of untrained salesmen selling toilet brushes or books, WFG associates push life insurances, mutual funds, and other financial services. Just like most pyramid selling scams you have to pay to become a member then as soon as you become a member the pressure is on you to recruit your family, friends etc…etc… In the meantime you are encouraged to sell consolidation loans etc to anyone who will listen. As you found out WFG use VERY shady tactics to recruit members often promising the opportunity of large earnings for people with little education and no experience. Personally I found the entire WFG sales pitch is very much like a cheap infomercial big on promises and sparse on facts. Since WFG will recruit almost anyone a large proportion of people who end up offering WFG financial services have absolutely no idea what they are selling. This can be devastating for the people they provide services to many of which are people of limited income and are the easy targets for WFG commission hungry salesmen. I would say to anyone remotely considering getting involved with WFG in any way DO YOUR RESEARCH contact the BBB search for them on the internet you will be horrified with what you find. Also, stay well clear of ANY financial adviser who has anything to do with this organization. |
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scamfreetown
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Her's some breaking news for you guys, I have received a call from the police two days ago telling me that Darrel **BLEEP** has claimed that I was threatning and harrassing him to get my money back, which is not true it's all because I'm mentioning his name everywhere not just this forum, and when I told the police officer the true story he said that he wish he could help me but everything was done perfectly, and he does know about WFG but nothing he could do. I just wanted to tell everybody that they don't Only scam you and take your money, they would call the police if you ever asked for your money back. |
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scamfreetown
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Please read this article of a guy who went much further with WFG tham me, see where he ended up. please tell me your opinion. http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/147/RipOff0147869.htm Last edited on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 09:24 pm by scamfreetown |
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Mason
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I was searching for info on Legacy Capital and found your postings. Thank you everyone for your info. I knew about WFG (I went to one of their 'Sales pitches') and just found out that Legacy Capital was formed by a bunch of disgruntled WFG 'associates' who weren't getting paid what was promised. I know KBS doesn't want to be wrong about WFG, nor does any of their 'Associates' I did alot of research into them. A few things I found: All the 'associates' buy into the idea of "helping families" - which sounds like the best thing in the world. But, what they don't say is that they sell the families 'products' - insurance, investments that charge the highest fees, front-end load funds, etc. Both the investments and insurance 'products' are from "preffered" Institutions (Banks, investment houses...) that pay the highest commissions to WFG and the 'associate'. They don't sell no-load funds (commissions are too low?). I don't mind someone trying to sell me their product, I just wish the 'associates' weren't misled and that they didn't buy into (or as they say themselves - "SELL OUT" to) the false idea that - we all win. WFG and others like Legacy rely on ambitous 'associates' to buy into the 'helping' of others so they can profit. The problem is (in my opinoin) they sell the products that pay them the highest commission, rather than what is best for the customer. I found a job posting - Jobzilla - Legacy is looking for 'Financial Lifestyle Strategists'. They say : "Come join the highest paid industry on earth!!!" Who do you think pays? Could it be the Families you're 'Helping' |
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Puck
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KBS It will be interesting to find out just how long it will take you to wake up and see through all the WFG hype and double talk. At present, I think you are very much in the “we care for people” phase of your brainwashing. I truly wish I was wrong about WFG since from reading your posts KBS you come across a very genuine individual. Unfortunately, genuine people are often the easiest targets for scammers. |
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immigrantworker
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They want me to take out loan for value of my home, then invest money into "investments". They say I will make more % in investments then the interest % the bank charges. I know that investments sometimes do not make money, and maybe lose money. What happens if my investments lose, and I still have to pay the bank? WFG still gets paid for selling me investments and life insurance, but my family home will be taken away. They say they are teaching strategies for rich people to ordinary people. Only rich people can afford to lose so much money in the stock market. I can not. |
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Cutter
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Notice KBS has gone very quiet of late. I wonder if he/she has woken up the fact that WFG is a scam:-) |
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StillSearching
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Well I have to say, making a decision to join WFG sure isn't made any easier by reading all these blogs. Is it a scam, isn't it a scam. Does anyone really know? It seems to me that the concepts and ideas make sense, but does the person presenting them really know what they're talking about? Everyone seems to have something to bitch about, but are they just whiners who don't really have a clue or do they have ligitimate reasons. I can't make head or tails from any of it! One thing I do know is this, any business venture takes hard work, it doesn't matter if you work for Petro Canada or you sell Amway or Avon, if you want to suceed you better work hard. And this issue some of you have about all net working marketing(pyramid) being a scam, excuse the expression but "get your heads out of your butt". Anyone who works for a corporation works for a pyramid, the guys at the top make the money and unless you work your way up you're not going to make the big bucks. You want big bucks start your own business and leverage your time by hiring more people? Hey, that sounds like a pyramid, it must be a scam!! If someone from any of these MLM's would just present the worse case scenario and stop the hype and all bull**BLEEP** perhaps those of us who are interested in having a closer look might actually be able to cut through all the crap. So those of you who think you got burned, get your facts straight before you start your bitch session. And those of you trying to recruit and educate, for god sakes cut the bull**BLEEP** and give people the straight goods so we're not pissed off down the road when we've spent time and money trying to figure everything out. I challenge any current WFG'er to actually lay it on the line and come clean on what is really going on with your company, have a bit more respect for your business. Last edited on Fri Dec 7th, 2007 09:46 pm by StillSearching |
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Kittenstew
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I found this thread interesting. I skimmed through most of it, and I can understand why and how most of the people think WFG is bull. I'd like to insert my opinion based on my spouse who works for WFG. I think first off I would like to touch base about the $125 dollar fee you'd have to pay for the book and test. What the company is simply trying to do is save you from having to go to school for two years, you can learn everything in these books. It's based on fast tracking your way through the system. They tell you un-educated peeople can do the work, but you have to excpect it's going to be for a price. WFG also accepts full fledged police reports. it's free, no fee's, that's all they need. If you look at the big picture, it's just like any other job. You have to buy a uniform at your local fast food joint for 70$; on an 8 dollar wage that's a 2 days work. if you get a job at oil and gas you have to buy a 500$ new wardrobe to make sure you are office clothing. Same thing with this job, you might have to pay 500$ upfront, but if you work hard, and don't give up it pays off. I will admit WFG will put the pressure on you like crazy to get your family and friends in the door. I don't argue that. But if you have any guts just tell them no. my spouse told them straight up, When I get licenced and have my first paycheck, I will tell my friends and family about it. It would just be stupid to go around telling everyone you're going to be a millionaire in a year, news flash, not gonna happen. Although the company says anyone can be a finacial advisor, be realistic. if you didn't pass high school math, your chances of suceeding are slim. my spouse for example got a buisness comp from the U of C. it has defiently helped him make his way with the company. My advise for anyone that wan'ts to get involved with the company is: use your head, you're not going to be a millionaire in the first year. You DO have to work your ass off for it. You DO have to study and know your stuff inside and out. 80% of people that right the first test fail. of that 20% only 80% pass the next test (the one that licences you) so 16% of people make it past the first hurdle. 84% of people, give up, don't study hard enough, or get too lazy to finish the job. if you are determined you will suceed. |
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spud
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I think what concerns me most about WFG is like Amway and other pyramid type selling organizations is that they are more interested in recruiting new agents than they are about the people who are already agents making a living. Just out of curiosity, how long has your spouse been involved with WFG? Is it his fulltime job? Again using Amway as an example, I have lost count of the number of people over the years who have approached me with the “I would like to discuss an exciting business opportunity” line with you. All of these people were taken in by the motivational speakers who had made millions with Amway. The interesting thing is that not one of these people made anything like a living from Amway. A few weeks ago WFG attended the Calgary franchise show. This in itself was somewhat misrepresenting of WFG since they are not a franchise. Anyway their opening line to me as I passed by their stand was “How would you like to learn how to make more money than I could possibly spend, working part time and with no investment?”, a statement that just about sums up this organization in a nutshell. Don’t get me wrong the MLM business model does work, problem is that it tends only to work best for the guys at the top! But perhaps the saddest thing of all is that some people after working their fingers to the bone trying to make a business model work come away thinking that the reason they failed was down to them when if the truth be known, they never stood a chance due to the MLM structure. If your spouse is truly committed to developing a financial business (and it sounds like they are) then why not consider becoming a licensed mortgage broker? I know a few of them and they are all dong very good business.  |
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gpecote
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All of these posting reminds me of a quote by Einstein "We all one fundamental question to ask ourselves, do we live in a friendly or hostile universe?" The very fact that ANYTHING we look at can seem positive or negative. The very perception of the world is from within. I have been with WFG for about a year and a half now and the things I've seen this company do as far a donating to charities and awesome. When it comes down to it EVERYTHING in life is what you make of it. The networking structure of this company is as fallows: There are 4 levels: Marketing Director (68%) Senior Associate (48%) Associate (38%) Training Associate (28%) Yes this is based on recruiting but what company does not recruit, look at West Jet, and what’s cool the people you recruit can pass you, so contrary to some people thinking processes if you do not work hard, you do not get paid. So if you recruit someone who works harder then you, they can pass you and that won't benefit you at all. So if an ambitious person really works hard and become a Marketing Director the MD above them loses their team because now their equal in status. There is always a small override but what company does not take advantage of employees or associates in lower positions. The only difference here is that you're not waiting for someone to give a raise, you just have to work hard to get it and it's very clearly defined how to attend each level of associate. This is NOT a get rich quick affair, just like anything in the world you have to go to work, but some people don't like to work. For those people love to point fingers and live in their own **bleep** as they say. It's really too bad because life is pretty good on the positive side of the fence especially when you take advantages of opportunities. Now really you could something to bitch about with everything if you really want to, but who wants to do that. Anyways, there is a lot more positives then negatives in this company, not to that there isn't negatives but again who wants to live in that mind set. P.S. I got paid $6000.00 for saving a close friend's family from bankruptcy and since then they are doing phenomenal, so a I guess it can't be all bad. |
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Puck
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True every company recruits to grow. MLMs however simply recruit to increase turnover by turning everyone into a sales associate. They don’t care about the financial growth of their associates; only that their distribution network grows. Selling financial services is not like selling cheese burgers yet companies like WFG are happy to employ anyone who can push product. The problem is the quick fix solutions they provide could leave people in financial ruin. I am not saying that people can not benefit from sound financial advice but rather that they should seek such advice from qualified professionals and not loan sharks or ex burger flippers. Not to say that everyone who masquerades under the grandiose banner of the World Financial Group is qualified to flip burgers. Last edited on Fri Dec 21st, 2007 08:17 pm by Puck |
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gpecote
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I here your point, however in order to do anything in this company you have to be licensed by the government, meaning you can't sell Life Insurance unless you have a CIC license, you can't sell mutual funds unless you have a CSC license. So in order to make money you have to be licensed and in order to be licensed you have to study, take the exam and then pass, which a lot of people don't. Being licensed plus having a Federally Certified Compliance Officer right in the office constantly overseeing and regulating absolutely everything the company does, it's pretty hard to do anything shady and if you try they'll revoke your license. As for the burger flippers, hey you can't even regulate whether or not they spit in your burger. It's a fact of life, there are good people doing good things and there are bad people doing bad things. For those who try to do bad things in this company, they are usually expelled from WFG and those are usually the people that post the negative comments. Hey if it doesn’t work for you just don’t do it. It's always the few that ruin it for the many. Last edited on Fri Dec 21st, 2007 09:57 pm by gpecote |
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1avrgeJoe
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Wow!! So many different views on the company, life, and criticism of each other. Well if nothing else, there is plenty of hype for the company as everyone talks about them. First of all, not to be critical, but I think some of the people here need to check their ages, competence levels, not to mention spelling and grammar. You can only intelligently argue with someone if you are objective and unbiased to be fair to others to take you seriously. You also have to see if these so-called strategies can do any justice to your own lifestyles and your to see if they should even be considering speaking to anyone in the INDUSTRY let alone this one company. You have to be personally disciplined to even be able to listen to someone else SUGGEST how to handle your personal finances. Next, i agree with whoever said that someone from the company should step in here and set the record straight of what happens and how everything works from entering the company, how the tactics work for families, what the general requirement are, etc. I'm not going to lie, I've attented one of these overviews and had the chance to sit down with someone in the company. I bombarded the person with questions knowing not everything might get answered. But I have a good general idea of whats going on. I am considering going on board as a client to test the waters. But I'm taking my time, not listening to the 'influences' tried with me. It could also be the agent I'm working with because I have heard of some being burned but again it was proven to be the lack of competence of the agent. This proven by the rep not lasting too long with the firm. I think the rep you are working with makes a great deal in how your experience with the company will turn out. One of the many problems in this blog is no one has mentioned what type of people this company does the best work for. Any company out there doing any business or manufacturing/selling any product will market to a specific target. But will the company refuse to serve the masses?? No. In my eyes, thats considered effortless money. If you're out there flipping burgers, as they mentioned above, if one of the customers particularly like the way you flip your burger, and wants to show their appreciation by giving you a tip, are you going to refuse?? I doubt it since it's so hard nowadays to earn a living. I could say a great deal more but I don't have that much time in my life to sit down, whine and complain about every aspect out there that I'm not personally involved in. I have better thingS to do with my life. I just thought the new sceptics out there could use a little objectivity in there searches of something they are considering being a part of. If you suspect something may be helpful to you or your family, don't just listen to the 2 or 3 people that have a vengence against something. Look into it yourself. Talk to people already involved and see why they might be happy. As far as WFG goes, why not question the longevity of the firm? Find out how the families were 'helped' and if what the company projects they do came into affect for them. Why is a massive company like Aegon going to back them up if it can ruin their reputation and massive bottom line. Why are all the big time financail institutions affiliated with them? What has contributed to make them grow the way they have for so many years? Not everyone uses avon or mary kay, yet they seem to be growing over time as well. Do your own due diligence. Figure it out for yourself. If it makes sense for you and yours, why do you care what anyone else says . . . . . are they putting food on your table? Are they watching out for your children? I'll say just one last thing about WFG. The key words are 'helping FAMALIES'. These people understand that nothing happens overnight in our world. You have to be well grounded, patient, and commited at everything you do. Todays generation is LOOKING for everything to be instant. I can probably bet the people bad mouthing here are young singles without major responsibilities trying to find something to make them rich overnight without working for any of it. Once something doesn't work for them ----ITS A SCAM!! ITS A SCAM!! Bottom line. Do your own research. By the way, I don't know how illegal a firm can be when ex-president Clinton's cabinet members play a role in the company. |
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lookingforchange
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My question to all of this is does anyone have experience outside of the MLM issue? Has anyone actually worked with them on the products and strategies they provide? I have been approached about the "business opportunity" with WFG and have declined. And I have to say that the representative was very respectful of that choice. However, I still went thru the process of hearing about the products and services they supply. They have prepared a plan and it all sounds very straightforward and that's the part I need some feedback on... |
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tsox514
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I am a WFG client, and I have so say am very happy with the service they provide to us. We did not have a debt problem but we wanted to be able to pay off our mortgage one day, have a retirement fund and send our kids to university. We have lowered our monthly payments and already we are seeing our money grow. We have more free cash and life is good. We have several friends and family that are WFG client as well and no one is complaining, if anything there is light at the end of the tunnel!!!! |
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wfgsucks
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First of all, the reason the WFG is ranked so high is because its advisor who vote on the catergories. Its not hard to get the most votes when you randomly recruit anyone who has a heartbeat and 125 bucks and promise them the world and tell them they will become financial professionals. Take it from me who was with the company for 3 years and was the top producer in my office for the last 2 of those years. Yes top producer and didn't crack $25,000 in a year. WFG is a scam and people get rich off your hard work. Be careful who you work with. You may be told this is the best opportunity out there, but guess what...its not even in the top 1 million when you do your research. I have recently left for another opportunity so I can get out of debt that I am now in because of WFG (yes all those "company trips" and conventions, u have to pay for yourself). I left on good terms and wished everyone luck, only to find out that my name was being slandered and my new position with another company being jeapoudized by the same MD who once called me his superstar and good friend...I guess now that he lost his number 1 person and can't make money off me, he doesn't really care about anything else. What kind of company that claims you are in business for yourself will not let you leave when you would like to. I mean I have family who owna business and they can close the doors tomorrow and noone would lie about them and make them look bad.... WFG is the biggest brain wash scam I have ever seen and unfortunatelly it took me 3 years to realize that and along the way I had a hand in ruining other people's lives while I was thinking I was helping them. STAY AWAY AS FAR AS YOU CAN.... |
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Namaste2012
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I will reply to this message by first saying that, I am an agent with World Financial Group, although my point of view may be biased in some eyes I understand the company and its system. I work out of an office in Edmonton and I will tell you this, this business is not for everyone, not everyone makes a whole bunch of money but we will give anyone the chance to do great things with thier life. Aside from people with criminal records, the answer is "yes" you can become an associate with World Financial Group. The $125 goes toward a background check to assure there is no criminal record present aswell the money goes to a code number so that you can get paid. This business is not for everyone, and no business ever is. Before you can even go out and help families with our concepts and strategies you must be licenced, in Edmonton this is done through the Business Career College and that is where your $235 dollars goes. This is a federally regulated industry, you must be licenced to distribute any sort of product and service, you must write your test at the Alberta Insurance Council's office and the exam costs $100. The reason why we recruit is: The average age of a financial adivisor is 58, what do you think a 58 year old financial planner wants to do? Perhaps retire? With the largest generation (baby boomers) coming to retirement, the need for what we do is tremendous and thats why as a company we must recruit in order to capture the market share. Stats Canada released a statistic that stated 91% of people are unsuccessful and need to continue to supplement their income in retirement, this is a direct result of an under-educated market in terms of knowledge on taxes and saving money. As an educational based company we are trying to change these number for the positive. We are an independent broker for companies like AGF, Transamerica, Franklin Templeton (which by the way is the largest publicly traded mutual fund company in the world, think they'd risk thier reputation with a fly by night operation) we have many other major banks in which we are afilliated with. We operate like a mortgage broker, we only get paid when we find a solution for the family. It's a win/win situation in my eyes, atleast if there is nothing we can do for you, there is a financial education to boot. Some people spend $10,000 to $20,000 dollars and a few years in school to know what I have been taught here. In response to your comment on you being the highest producer in you office and you only made $25,000, i would like to know how many points you wrote and how many people were in your office. One of the highest producers in my office made $520,000 last year. Just for your information aswell, World Financial Group was listed on Investment Executive Magazine as #2 in Ethics, we are not going to stop growing with the business model we have. We have more Licences here in Alberta than Investors Group does and we have only been here for nine years, they have been here for sixty. If you think we are a scam, you better go tell TD! |
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wfgsucks
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Thats funny because I highly doubt your top producer did that all themselves. I was talking about personal production...And you throw a number out that an MD is doing. As far as the background check and code number, how about head office forward that to you when you need it for your life licence if thats what they're actually doing with your money. Oh wait, if you've ever actually done an AMA for someone then you know that they are approved right on the spot and nothing is actually done. As far as being a broker, ya I agree at one point WFG was...how about now that you're limited to 6 or 7 preferred providers. Only 2 insurance companies. Why do you think that is? What happened with A.L. Williams when they got too big and sold out to a corporation. They had to streamline and minimize their risk because they had so many uneducated people running around being a liabilty. Just be careful because history does repeat itself and thats exactly where thats heading. And don't expect Aegon to keep WFG around much longer. I am now with a real company.. and guess what, when you win a trip they actually pay for it and dont make you pay for something you "won". Give me a break. Also, you have the lowest compensation in the industry behind Primerica. Its spun to you as well its the highest compensation but thats only if you have at least 10 licence associates that you overrride. Do some research my friend and you will quickly find out that this is no as they like to put it..."the best opportunity in the world". Get some real business minded people in your presentation and see how many of them agree with that. All i'm saying is cut your loses and stop believing the hype. |
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Namaste2012
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Yes, your right that is what an MD is doing. If you have read books on business you will find that no business owner does all the work themselves, they have other people that they have had a part in training and mentoring, do the work for them. If you want to be financially independent you need to have a business that can run without you, or have a pile of money making you money. Your comment on the code number and background check is merely opinion is not worth a response, prove what they do with it and you may have something there. In my opinion being able to have your own business by paying $125 is worth it in the tax writeoffs you can claim to CRA. AMA's are not done right on the spot, yes money is collected but if the person is not approved by head office then thier money will be refunded, like i said, if you have a criminal record it is unlikely you will be accepted (dependant upon the charge). We have more than 7 companies in which we distribute for aswell, more than 2 life insurance companies. Perhaps your trainer had only trained you on a few companies, thats part of the challenges we face as independent contractors. One person may run thier business different from another. Here is a list, TD, RBC, IA Clarington, Mackenzie, AIM Trimark, ING (in the states), AGF, Equitable Life, Transamerica Life, Manulife, Fidelity, AIC, Western Life Reserve, Prudential, RBC Insurance, Aegon, B2B Trust, these are the one's i can think of off the top of my head. Notice more than two insurance companies in there? Tell me, what other financial institution brokers for more companies then WFG does? And do families want access to a small amount of products or a large amount? I don't know why you are worried about getting too big, thats when the people that know what they are doing have made the most money in business in this world. As for liabilities within our agents, take a look at what the bank puts people in and tell me theres no liability there (GIC's). You must be extremely close to Aegon relations to make a statement that Aegon won't keep us around, why would the 98th largest and most powerful company in the world get rid of what is now the fastest growing financial services company in Canada. You must do more homework on that then the staff of lawyers aegon pays to watch their assets. Your comment on the trip that you "won" is purely hearsay on your behalf, come with some proof. Compensation wise, you are correct. We do start off at lower contract percentages then the traditional industry. Where an individual would make more then that of a traditional advisor is within recruiting. When any business owner starts a business they hire people in order to ease thier work load, a successful business owner will delegate tasks to these hired people and pay them less in salary then they make the company, there is just no sense in a business owner hiring someone and losing money on the work that they do. WFG gives every agent that comes on board the oppurtunity to own thier own business by recruiting and training induviduals within thier own business. I have done my research, and your wrong about your statement on business minded people not seeing our oppurtunity. Business minded people respect our system and i have brought many of these individuals on board. Perhaps you have some dillusion yourself on what a profitable and helpful business looks like. Obviously with a name like wfgsucks you have some pent up aggression on WFG. The only people that fail in our business are the ones tht quit and usually they cannot find it within themselves to take the blame, so they blame the company. You are where you are from the choices you make and it is about time that all the people that bad mouth this company take some personal responsibility for where they are. Our company is not perfect, but what company is? |
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wfgsucks
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Well how about you prove this criminal record check then you can tell me thats what your money is used for. Why won't head office send you a copy of it if you pay for it? As far as paying for all those trips..abviously you haven't 'won' any or made enough money because you do have to pay yourself. Ask your MD if the company pays for those hawaii trips and so on. I'm not blaming the company for me leaving. I left because I found a better opportunity for myself. All you're doing is repeating the same stuff that is slammed down your throat at all those conventions. And by the way..if Manulife is a product provider, why don't you offer the "Man One" product? Your leadership will tell you that there are flaws in it but do some research there and you'll find out there isn't. They will also tell you that since Manulife laughed them off when they started the company that they will now not take them on as a product partner and that manulife really wants to WFG to offer their products. Give me a break..if they were such great business minds then then they would be begging the largest and most recognized insurance company out there to let them offer its products. I will change my name for you just because I don't have anything against people who work with WFG..I just don't agree with the way things are done. And I'm not sure how in touch with the leadership you are but once you get to that level you will start finding out many things that the associate will not find out. And I'm sure at that point you may agree with some of the things I'm saying. |
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pchanlim
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I had joined WFG and I think it has good prospect. You have to be a visionary and be in it for the long term to see your hard work have result. the person who started this probably is not an enterpreur type of person, expect result straight away. As mentioned, it is financial so you need to build up trust and relationship with your client, it is not going to happen overnight. I have to say that person is also pretty ignorant because anything to do with financial issue needs background check, you probably don't want to work with any company which deals with your money who hires everyone without a back ground check. As for the $125, I believe $100 is to do the background check and $25 is for the administrative work they do on your behalf. I am in Toronto and I know for sure that It is not free to get detailed background police check and it is a lot more hassle to do it myself. i had galdly pay that for some one to do it for me. My 21yrs old dgther had to have a background check for going to work with Canada World Youth group so why not us who deals with someone's money??? I am not one of those "dumb" person because my annual income is over $100,000, my last T4 2007 was higher, without working for WFG. There is nothing wrong with wanting to learn how to invest and at the same time help others to invest. I think you should get your anger in control and God forgive you for making others quit. You are not doing the investment and financial planning for a company, you are actually working with legitimate banks & insurance company, you function like a broker.. Good luck to those who believe.... If anyone want to know more, let me know. |
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confused
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We have an opportunity to "invest" with WFG, it seems to good to be true ( ie hundreds of thousands of dollars in 30 years!) Does any one know about the investment side not eh job opportunity? |
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pchanlim
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Hi, it all depends on the product you purchase and whichever your home province is, the providers are different. The providers are actual banks and insurance company so I would suggest you look for someone in your province. We have to pass provincial exam in life insurance and mutual funds. If you let me know which province you are in and where, maybe I can get someone licence to sell in your area to go through that with you. |
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sound_advise
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I am a financial advisor with a respected company in Canada, and I want to add a few of points to this thread. First off, do you really want to invest your money and put your financial future in the hands of a financial advisor that works part time? It was mentioned that the book WFG gives you is intended to fast track people through the course material. Is that a good thing? I would prefer to know that my money is invested with someone that didn't "fast track" the program to get licenced. Financial Planning is a serious discipline that requires ongoing training and full-time attention to detail. I would be absolutely embarassed to try and recruit my client base as part time financial advisors. My clients are typically people that are too busy to be tending to their own finances in a prudent way, nevermind helping others part-time. Finally, I would be wary of any financial planning firm that has a blanket cure for every household. Proper financial planning listens to goals and concerns and builds custom plans for every situation. The leverage strategy that WFG uses, which is the borrow and invest to pay off a mortgage, etc, may work in some cases, but they are few and far between. A client needs to be in a very high tax bracket, they need to have a lot of wiggle room financially, they have to have a minimum of a moderate aggressive approach to investing, and the investment loan should never exceed 50% of a person's net worth and total debt payments should not exceed 35% of their income. Clients should never commit more than 35% of their uncommitted income to a leverage. As I said, some people are suitable for leverages, most are not, by a long shot. There is a reason that WFG has a less than respectable reputation in the financial planning world. Last edited on Wed Oct 29th, 2008 03:34 pm by sound_advise |
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Makeadifference
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You are probably the dumbest person i have ever seen online SCAMFREE. Sorry to tell you that first of all that initial $125 is for educational purposes which don't come cheap, as well as a tax write off for everything you pay for which pays for itself within 1 year. ex, gas, restaurants, etc. When was the last time a university student taking financial planning payed less than 30,000 dollars for a degree of 4 years before making anything, or a LAWYER or DOCTOR??? Please pay attention to the forbes list, and the fortune 500 and then see who is the scam, who do you work for??? Are they on the list??? why not??? |
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Puck
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Hang on a second, surely you are not comparing the kind of people who work for WFG with doctors, lawyers or true financial planners? Any halfwit can (and all too often do) end up working for this outfit. But then again, that’s their lookout. What makes WFG different from all the other MLM scams is that these halfwits are offering "financial advice" that can have devastating consequences. |
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Makeadifference
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I know people who are engineers, real estate moguls, past lawyers that now do this because it offers more free time with thier families at the same or in some cases more pay, they all eventually have to write the same provincial license exam as "real" financial planners in order to provide financial advise. Just because someone goes to university doesn't mean they aren't "half wit's" I've met many idiots who go through university, whether they go because daddy said so and payed for it or not never the less most people who attend university are still afterall still kids. The vast majority of people i know who work for the world financial group are mature grown adults who take what they are doing, and what they are doing with other people's finances seriously, in the end it is afterall the choice of the people they speak to who make the final decision. By the way how many people can you say you know that have been "harmed" by them. Now seeing as the popularity and growth of the company itself overall, how many people do you think it has helped? |
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RealPlanning
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I am a financial planner in a neighboring city to Calgary. The fact of the matter is WFG and its 'associates' have a reputation almost as close to (or if not worse than) those of Primerica, or any other temporary life insurance policy replacing high leveraged financial planning 'company' out there. Most of my clients who have been approached by a WFG part-timer soon realize that they offer nothing more than cult like mentalities and empty promises. You can really find this out on your own by doing one of two things, research on the net OR going to one of their 'ra ra' meetings and listening to the 'uplinks' dodge your questions. Financial planning takes a lot of dicipline, and customized portfolios. As the poster above said, would you rather have somebody looking after your portfolio who does it full time or on evenings and weekends and for extra pocket money? Not everybody can be fit into their sceme. If you don't want to work for them, they will try to push you into a Variable Life Insurance policy and/or a home equity line of credit for investment purposes. To one of the posters above. Hearing you spout off all the companies that WFG deals with is funny. If you are a reputable broker like 'most' of us you would soon realize that you too can be contracted with as many companies as you would like, if you want to take the time to fill out all of their proprietary contracting forms! I am also very skeptical you can do business through Manulife as well as I have been told by one of their directors they will not do business with WFG. Perhaps I am wrong, I dont like to quote 3rd party information. In conclusion, go to their meetings. Do as much research as you can. If you think its too good to be true, it probably is. You can get on with some really good companies if you want to put the time and effort into it. WFG is a multi level marketing scheme no matter how you look at it. A lot of advisors are getting ready to retire and there is a good opportunity for training as well as buying books of business. Just depends on whether or not you want to buy into WFG's bull, or help real people and real families achieve their financial goals while being sympathetic to their situations and passionate about what you do as a full time career. Last edited on Wed Nov 19th, 2008 12:46 am by RealPlanning |
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cowgirl
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I too am an associate with WFG and just passed my provincial exam ! It truly is challenging to keep focused with all the negative postings around about this company. I was a client first and have been with them for over a year now. I have met some amazing people, gone to conventions and see the passion in those that are doing what needs to be done. I don't mind having to pay to attend the conventions as I get to write all my expenses off on my taxes. WFG has given me the opportunity to travel, help people I care about and learn more to help my family along the way. It is not a get rich quick thing and I feel that alot of the negative posters post because maybe they didn't work hard enough Or perhaps they just want to bash what they do not know or understand. I know that for me personally I am where I chose to be in this business. Doing the right thing is what matters most for me and the families I want to help. I am taking the time to ensure I have the education first before I go out there & build my business. So that being said I am not all about recruiting and am more focused on educating people to help them make the right choices. If a potential client wants to do business with me great..if not then atleast I know they have learned something more about financial planning to help their family and possibly given them hope that dreams can come true ! There is good and bad in any company out there and its a shame that most people focus on the negative things. We can only help those that want to help themselves. Last edited on Thu Nov 20th, 2008 03:31 am by cowgirl |
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pchanlim
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Good for you. Stay focus and if you are going to LA convention in March, 2009. Hopefully we will meet each other. I am from Ontario, Toronto. I am Chinese and is from Singapore. My name is Peggy. See you at the top....... |
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DaGriss
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Well I have no bias at all about this company, but I will offer up my own opinion... See, I have met quite a few of these 'agents', lol, and so have some of my friends, and the one thing we all agreed apon, and noticed right away, is they seem to be the kinds of people who if you were to walk into one of their meetings un announced you would probably find them in white robes standing around a table with a big bowl of 'special' punch in the middle and a few chickens running around.. Granted, some of them im sure are normal. But 100% of the ones I have met... Well, drink up! We have punch.... In my opinion World Financial Group ISNT a scam. I think that it DOES help people with their financial problems, and I think it CAN be a good thing. On the other hand... I think the 'scam' aspect of it all is the sales people. For one, I would NEVER in a million years trust my finances with someone who DOESNT have a REAL education. Thats like hiring a guy with a GED to sell rocket ship parts to NASA. I look at 'AGENTS' of WFG as the used car salesmen of the financial world. See, a used car salesman is out to make money. And he is usually greasy, will say anything and DO anything to get you in a used car. He will give you the fakest smile, he will stroke your ego and make you feel at home, JUST to make a sale. The only difference between the used car salesman, and the WFG agent trying to trap you into investing your hard earned money, is the used car salesman only bends you over on the lot, where as a WFG agents bends you over for as long as you have investments with them. How? Well here is the thing. WFG 'agents' make money off you if they come up with a solution and get you to invest ect. Thats when they get paid. BUT, they KEEP getting paid, from you, for as long as you have your account. So the more YOU save, the more THEY make. Its a brilliant plan really. They basically enable people off the street, with no education, to leech off people/families looking for help, and they do this while hiding behind the "We are helping families" blanket. Granted im sure a FEW are REALLY looking out for the families needs.. Just like im sure there are used car salesmen out there that are looking out for your best interests.. The person I know that is an 'agent' works ALL the time. They are always seeing people at all hours, and ALL they talk about is how much money they make (without dishing real numbers) and how they plan to retire early and all the toys they will buy. To me, that is a sign of someone who is out for THEIR own interests, and not that of the family needing financial help. And they talk about how everything should be a win win. But, from what I have seen, and what I know, much like if the person in question were on a teeder-todder, the win would have to be tipped in their direction. Otherwise they get mad and that plastic smile turns into fangs... I have seen it  I know when I want to buy a car, I will to go to a dealership. Not some car lot thats off a back road, run by a guy who has no real education, and is looking to make a quick buck. Bottom line, I go back to the saying "where there is smoke, there is fire". And there seems to be a LOT of smoke around the WFG. Not so much the company (sort of) but the agents. I think if you want to invest your money, get out of debt ect, go to a professional. Simple as that. Because when you go into someone's office, and they have 'BELIEVE' hanging on their wall, that BELIEVE doesnt mean 'believe that we can help you and get you out of debt' it means 'believe that I can leech enough money off people to get what I want'... Business is like that everywhere really. Everyone is out to make a buck. Its just how some go about doing it. One could argue that this is like any business, and they would be right, but what I find with WFG, and some of its agents, is that they will see as MANY people as possible, say what ever it takes, no matter how benificial to you it is, just to make that sale and bring in some money. After all, what do they have to lose?.... |
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pchanlim
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We are the professionals. We get our provincial licence from the government. About the payment part, what do you think the banks and other financial advisor get their pay from. These agent are licenced by the provincial and monitor by the provincial securities. They sit for exams set by those monitoring institues. The client do not pay extra, you are naive to think that the bank do not make any comission or the other life insurance company do not get comission. Why try to look down on someone just because they have a lower education than you. Do you not know that there are a lot of immigrant have good education background but has to work as a car salesman & taxi driver to survive. Just because they don't speak good English, does not mean they have "stupid" written across their forehead... it is people li8ke you that make Canada a lousy place for new immigrant. I have a BSc & doing my Master now and they are all Canadian University. Please give these people a break...... They are just trying to make a living...  |
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DaGriss
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I realize people are trying to make a living. And I wish you the best. Its just the way they go about making the living. I know some 'agents' DO want to help. And that's awesome. Those are the people that SHOULD be working there. My issue comes with the people who get into it JUST for the money and have no care or concern for the people they are 'helping' If I offend any 'agents' i'm sorry. But if you operate in a moral manner, where you are looking out for the people who REALLY need help, and you truly WANT to help, then I applaud you. Its just from MY experience, and from what I have seen from the ones I have met, all they care about is making themselves money. Which makes the struggling client just a number that helps make their own personal bank account bigger.... The person investing or trying to get out of debt has a LOT to lose. And when an agent is ONLY concerned about their dollars, then they could really care less about what happens to the person. As for the professional thing, its much like I said with the GED. To me, a GRADUATE is someone who went through high school and passed. A GED, is a quick test that gets you that piece of paper. So on the flip side, someone that has gone to college and has taken business classes, and taken courses on financial management, to me, IS the PROFESSIONAL. This is just my opinion. And really, it shouldn't mean much. Everyone believes what they want, and they have the right to do so. Last edited on Tue Dec 30th, 2008 06:00 pm by DaGriss |
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anonymous
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Two guys came over at my house, my dad sent them through a friend of his because I was looking for a job. Guess what company they were from, WFG! And you know the rest, luckily I had done my research before going to their meeting and did not go any further or payed them any money. They had brought to show me a powerpoint file and I asked him if I could keep a copy of all the files and go through them. He said sure. There are 8 files, but they all say the same stuff over and over... it's a little bit of education along with a lot of hope and guided with very strong convincing language... well convincing enough for most. Here are the files: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BJUKTDCU |
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WFG is a scam
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I am having great difficulties on why WFG Associates (that's right, they can't be called "Agents" because from the WFG's "Membership Agreement" clearly stated it can't be such to abstain WFG and its "partners" from all legal liabilities) have to defend on a MLM pyramid scam as a legitimate company. http://www.topix.com/forum/ca/calgary-ab/T4TTVSDK13TEUEARU/p76 (Post #1546) [QUOTE who="Bound by Agreement"] C. As a member of World Financial Group, the Associate is not an employee of WFG. Instead, the Associate's relationship with WFG is that of an independent contractor. Nothing in this Agreement shall be construed to constitute the Associate as a partner, employee, or agent of WFG, not shall WFG, the Preferred Companies or the Associate have any authority, except as expressly provided herein, to bind the other, it being the intention that each shall remain an independent contractor responsible for his or her own actions. Subject to all applicable local, provincial, and federal laws and regulations, this Agreement, Associate Agreement Guidelines and Rules, other instructions, procedures, etc. published by AFG and any contract(s) between the Associate and the Preferred Companies, the Associate shall conduct and control his or her business activities, work hours, selection of customers, office location, sales metholds. Even though a license or form may designate the Associate as an "employee" of WFG or the Preferred Companies, such designation will not change the fact that by definition and by practice the Associate is an independent contactor. As an independent contractor, the Associate shall be responsible for paying any and all federal, provincial, city, or other taxes that may become payable with respect to any compensation the Associate may receive under the terms of this Agreement. In fact, the entire WFG's "Membership Agreement" document is nothing more than an open invitation to a MLM marketing cult. The ambiguous wording and terms clearly justified as such: Please read from post #1540 by "Bounded by Agreement" to #1591 (The end of Page 78). http://www.topix.com/forum/ca/calgary-ab/T4TTVSDK13TEUEARU/p76 Subsequently to my comments on the interpretations of this document from post #1593 to #1646. (Page 81) http://www.topix.com/forum/ca/calgary-ab/T4TTVSDK13TEUEARU/p79 In fact, the entire WFG's own website, is also very vague with no viable facts to support their claim: http://www.wfg-online.ca I have been debated with these WFG associates regarding its legitamacy as a "credible" company. From the time I went to their "Introductory Meeting" last August. I have gathered insurmountable evidences of blatant disregard of regulations and their clients' own financial welfare. Numerous articles from reputable financial media outlets, such as Money Magazine, Bloomberg, Reuters, and the Economist have been well documented the checkered past of the World Marketing Alliance (WMA) - WFG's predecessor, to the AEGON took over of this MLM scam and its current involvements today. Moreover, the federal security regulators, the SEC and the NASD, along with securities commissions from many state governments had fined this company heavily and send some of WFG's convicted associates to jail. Speaking of its short 10 years presence in Canada, WFG has already garnered a lot of publicity. However, most of them are showing WFG as a MLM company, its pyramid style recruiting schemes, and lack of knowledge with next to no compliance control, are clearly showing why the overwhelming criticism of their US operation rear its ugly head here in the "Great White North". Hence, it was not long before Mutual Funds Dealers Association of Canada recently posted two investigations on former WFG associates on October 21 & 22, 2008. I strongly suggested everyone to read the both "Notices of Hearing" in their entireties. http://www.mfda.ca/enforcement/hearings08/NoH200829.pdf Mr. and Mrs. Longchamps' conducts were dispicable, where they willingly committed fraud over 1 million dollars by offering phony AEGON products to their own companies. http://www.mfda.ca/enforcement/hearings08/NOH200830.pdf Purisima Dy, was previously convicted of "tax evasion", served 60 days in prison in 1995, was terminated by PFSL in February 1999. Then she was rehired by WFG just five months later, lied about the previous conviction and paid $125, and was able to register to sell mutual funds and scholarship plans in Ontario. Suffice to say, what this former WFG associate did afterward was "beyond comprehension". Dy was dismissed by WFG in January 2007 for not "renewing" her "registration" rather than discovering her previous criminal past. WFG did not even know the extent on her crime until the news of her conviction on July 25, 2007, a day after she was sentenced to two years in jail plus three years in probation. Then how was it that compliance at WFG could allow such an inexcusable blunder by allowing a convicted criminal to join a registered firm regulated by the MFDA, even with a "background criminal" check? And how was it possible that she was allowed to sell mutual funds and scholarship plans? Since WFG has always maintained its "no discrimination" hiring policies, how many more of these mistakes will result in even more investigations by the MFDA and their colleagues around the world? These two recent investigations by the MFDA were only surfaced recently. I can assured that more of these crimes will be posted in the near future. By exposing the lies coming from these MLM marketing companies hiding as so-called "credible" financial services firms, their ugly truth will reveal itself from the overwhelming factual evidences from the reputable media sources, government publications and law enforcement sanctions. "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - Confucius (Chinese Famous Philosopher, 551 - 479 BC.) |
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Sanada
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Hi guys, I have a "meeting" with these guys today, and figured I'd take a look at what people had to say, and this thread popped up on google pretty quick, in Calgary too (I'm from Calgary). I've known it's pretty much BS from the get go but a lady that comes to the bank where I work at has kept bugging me about coming so i figured why not, go once and let her down nicely. For all the talk back and forth about their virtures, and lack thereof, there hasn't been much talk about the actual products they sell, and if they work or not. So just for the future benefit of anyone that gets a "recruiting" call, and wants to know what's up, I'll post some proper results. Just for reference I just finished my degree in finance from the U of C so I might know a thing or two. Just some preliminary things to consider for potential "WGF-ers", real finance and making money off it isn't the easiest thing in the world. Having a company tell you that you can all of a sudden jump into the field, save money, and help people, is a bit much. It's the equivalent of someone from the Flames saying "Hey! You! Come train with us and you can join the NHL maybe!" As for what kittenstew said about books saving you 2 years of school, sorry to say, but no. 1. Getting a certificate or diploma in Finance is one thing, but a full education is at VERY LEAST an undergrad degree in it to understand finance as a whole. I've seen the books haha, and no chance in hell do they go over everything you need to. 2. We'll forego the "saving you an education" bit, and move passed that. Now what else do you need? You need a Canadian Securities Course pass to at least be able to sell mutual funds in the very least. And a CFP or PFP to be remotely recognized as knowing what you're doing. WGF works off two ways. It lets potential employees think "yay, I don't need much education and I can be a finance person!" when really, you do. Do you think any big company/bank/institution would hire a WGF member to do anything finance related? No, you need a degree (or at very least a diploma) and usually a CFA to get anywhere worth mentioning, or a CA/CMA/CGA. It just shows people that they're selling to that they can save them money, but they do it VERY inefficiently if they do at all. Just from a quantitative side, I'm sure their instruments are not optimized (the amount of risk they offer is not reflected in their expected returns), and they don't offer anything outstanding that you can't do anywhere else. Once I go to the "meeting" today, I'll see how they "cut your mortgage payments in half" has KBS said earlier and all that other stuff. But we'll see what they say and try to sell me, either way it should be fun. |
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Sanada
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Ahh well I gotta wait till their next seminar to actually see what's what, today I just got a little tour and talk. At the end I did try to ask a bit what exactly i would do as an "associate", but I did get the run around a few times on that. Maybe Monday I can get a proper look. |
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MoneyGuy
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I can't believe some of the drivel I've read in this thread. I'm a real financial planner. WFG is worse than PFSL. It's Primerica on steroids. Armed and dangerous. You don't have to believe me. Just ask any real planner or broker. The industry has little respect for these folks. Neither PFSL or WFG are a scam (which implies something illegal), but they're poorly trained people playing financial planner. The stories I could tell. |
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wfgsucks
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Yes I have worked with WFG and I am also much more educated in the financial field than any associate that was at the office I worked at. I have since left and the company I work for now pays me very well and I do good things for families there as well. However, when you ask about the products and strategies WFG pushes, they are not all bad. The idea isn't bad that is, but the application is terrible. Leverage can be amazing and is used by the wealthy, however, you talk to any wealthy person and no chance in HELL would they leverage their home equity into mutual funds or U/L. They will leverage into other property or land but never mutual funds. NEVER!!! Also when I was with WFG for almost 2 years, I barely ever used U/L for clients. Not saying it doesn't serve a purpose but certainly not for every person out there. If you look at the numbers from insurance companies (who deal with real educated financial distributors), U/L is not used as often. The only thing I regret is using the leveraging strategies into mutual funds for my clients, especially investment loans. Since I left and the markets crashed, I feel for where those people are at, owing more than they borrowed and will take a long time to recover. As far as these being hidden strategies used by the wealthy, thats a bunch of bull. Every other firm and many much more respected can show you those strategies. The only thing thats different, is that they will do the right thing for you and not stick you in a U/L and lock you in for at least 10 years. Be careful people, stay away and get your friends away from WFG. I feel for the agent who don't know the truth. I've spoken with many people who have left and the stories you hear will shock you. By the way....I earn over 6 figures at my current position and i'm not a mutual fund or insurance dealer. So when they tell you you can't make money anywhere else, they are full of it. If anyone has specific questions about my experience, I can give you much more details. Just reply to this post and you can ask me anything you like. |
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MoneyGuy
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^ What he said. I've never been with WFG although I am a planner, with a firm that actually has respect. WFG is Primerica on steroids. |
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wfgsucks
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Hey Moneyguy, the firm I'm with right now is actually looking for distribution partners. Do you work for an IDA dealer, well I guess now its IROC or something like that? I'm pretty sure the WFG posters on here won't have a clue what that means but let me know. |
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MoneyGuy
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No, I'm MFDA. If you have something I should consider, send me a PM. |
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MoneyGuy
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WFGsucks, I see I have a PM from you but for some reason my PMing is disabled. I don't want to post my business email address here and don't have a throw-away (hotmail, etc.) email address. If you do, would you post it here and I'll email you. If not, I suppose I can set up a hotmail address and post it here. I don't know how else to contact you. I don't know why my PM is disabled. I'll try sending a PM to see if sending works. |
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wfgsucks
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Ya it looks like I can see your messages. You can send me an email at ray689@hotmail.com. |
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Admin Administrator 
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Sorry MoneyGuy my fault. Your PM is now active. Steve TALKCalgary.com |
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MoneyGuy
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Thanks, Steve, much appreciated. |
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cowgirl
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World Financial Group is making a difference. World Financial Group has NO products of its own they are like a mortgage broker and shop to get the best of the best for what he families needs. We are honored to work with some great businesses (TD Canada Trust, Franklin Templeton, TransAmerica, Equitable Life to name a few). The mission statement of No Family Left Behind means that EVERY family/person deserves to know that they have options and the education to make the decisions that are right for their family. Education is the key to making the right choices for you, know your options and the fact that you have them !!! Yes there is the business aspect as well it is up to you to make the decision that is right for you and your family. Yes some agents are more passionate than others but having this passion comes when you know and want to make a difference in peoples lives. Every agent that is working with families is required to write 2 exams and be licensed through the Alberta Insurance Council. You are required to renew your license each year by attending classes and courses to receive credits to show you are active and still educating yourself and keeping up to date with products, regulations and services offered in this fast paced ever changing industry. I love going to work each day & the positive and motivated people I get to work with and the families I can educate. Investment Executive rates Financial & Investment Companies every year. Check out these links to read more. Insurance agents hold up remarkably well (includes main chart) Your mind works best when its like a parachute....OPEN !! Have an awesome day Last edited on Sat Sep 26th, 2009 03:37 pm by cowgirl |
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MoneyGuy
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Pfft. I knew you were with WFG when I read your first sentence. Many people here will know Primerica better. WFG is Primerica on steroids. As for insurance licensing, those CE requirements are the same as what everyone has to meet. You cite the Investment Executive ratings? Ha, good one. Of course WFG and Primerica rate well. Reps of both firms always give very glowing reports on their companies because their ability to recruit is enhanced. If anyone wants a real review of firms like this, talk to a respectable advisor with a respectable firm for their impressions of either of these companies. It won't be good. I have friends at many different firms and generally have nothing bad to say about these companies, but I have nothing good to say about these MLM flakes. Sorry, you're selling but I'm not buying. Another poster called a WFG person a junior liar; sounds about right to me. |
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wfgsucks
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Okay cowgirl, obviously you're a WFG agent. So I hate to break this to you, but Investment advisor rankings are based on what agent say and when you have thousands of morons recruited and brainwashed, of course they're going to rank high. Do some research for your own good. Look at the old Hubert Humphrey days and the WMA days and the lawsuits and the illegal activity. Ask why you're top agent for the last 5 years from California is now facing legal action. Look that stuff up. Save your self. It is not possible for you to become on of the top people. The average WMA agent and things haven't changed since then, made 20.83 per month. If thats financial freedom then you continue chasing the dream. Read this article: http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/business/corporate_fraud/news.php?q=1224542089 Here is a little bit of it: What A.L. Williams did with term insurance and the “buy term and invest the difference” sales concept, Hubert Humphrey would do the same with VULs. With the business format system that he had perfected in his prior company, Mr. Humphrey would take the VUL industry by storm. In a ten-year run from 1991 through 2001, WMA would hire more than 400,000 recruits, sell over $4 billion in total sales, and pay out to their sales associates over $1 billion in commissions. During this period, WMA produced approximately 700 distributors who earned more than $100,000 per year, i.e, those who have made it financially and can quit their 8-to-5 job. WMA’s success ratio is about 0.18 percent (700 divided by 400,000) or less than a quarter of one percent, and it paid out on average $250 per year per recruit ($1,000,000,000 divided by 400,000 divided by 10 years) or $20.83 per month per recruit. Hardly numbers to sell the dream to new recruits. But was WMA a cash cow for the preferred provider companies. |
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CGYJNKRMVL
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As a small business owner I got it too a few years back when I made the mistake of joining the PGIB (pathetic group for incompetent businesspeople) this one guy in the group representing WFG blew a whole bunch of sunshine up my a$$ about how great it is to be in the garbage business. blah blah blah, then they wanted signup fees for seminars and that sorta thing... I shut him down point blank... Man, do these people have nothing better to do? Like get a 3AM infomercial and offer a free slap chop with your signup fees or something... surely people that reply to infomercials are the kind of losers they wish we all were. |
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financeguy Guest Member
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Yes WFG and Primerica had similar roots, but WFG is hardly Primerica on Steroids. I used to think WFG was a scam, but I got all of the information I needed first hand and I am a customer of theirs. WFG Canada has an amazing line of all Canadian Product providers, many of whom actually go to WFG to customize products to suit their clients (I'm able to make $100 deposits into Clarington funds that require 75,000 min deposit from non WFG clients). That's says alot. WFG is a NEW company in Canada (12 years), so it is easy to bash them after a few new agents do the wrong thing. If you read Ric Edelmans book "The Lies about Money" you will be absolutely shocked at the DOCUMENTED cases of fraud and misrepresentation by the worlds best known companies and banks (have a look at the middle section..he highlights these pages in dark grey for a reason!). It is easy for us to dismiss these charges because these other companies are so much older and established. Some of us quickly conclude that in many cases it was the COMPANY that was the victim of the agent's wrongdoing becasue they are so well established. Why then are we so quick to blame the WFG company when the same thing happens (even though it occured on a much smaller scale)? Established" is a relative term thesedays, just have a look at what banks are doing to the middle class behind the scenes (look at the google video Money as Debt part 1 and part 2) as well as how many are beginning to fail..especially in the US. Actually, Ric Edelman is now gaining immese popularity and respect about his ideas regarding using your home for leveraging. If done properly, you will gain wealth and security. Guess what, 5% of wealthy Canadians share 95% of all of the wealth and that is no coincidence. Many of them (not all) use their homes as wealth building tools becasue someone showed them exactly how to do so. WFG agents can do this and do it well, but ONLY for those that want it. The part that might really make mad about the 5% wealthy Canadians is that they learn how get a TAX REFUND for their mortgage payments from Revenue Canada. All legal techniques and designed for the weallthy. WFG is very knowledgeable about these little known techniques. WFG has an actul mission statement/crusade and is out there to help the middle class. They EMPOWER the middle class with education, where the lack lack therof has been a major profit tool for other institutions who depend on poorly financially educated middle class citizens for their success. Now, many banks are coming to WFG becasue they are either afraid of the good things they do or just want to get on board early. Now the Mortgage Center (CIBC) and RBC disability insurance are on board with WFG among many others. WFG has already created a definate polarization effect in Canada. There are those who will really hate them (ie: competitors who feel threatened by the empowerment WFG offers the middle class) and those who love them (clients who have been successful as well as the many agents who are also clients themselves). Your best bet? Get ALL of the information. Call up the many product providers and ask them. Ask a client, etc. Do not depend on the huge bathroom wall called "google" to do your research. |
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wfgsucks
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Well Finance guy, I appreciate the fact that you do your research but just so you know, I am a former WFG agent and I am not a competitor so I am not being biased when I say this, however you are wrong in some of the things you say. The wealthy don't get a tax deduction on their MORTGAGE payment because that is not legal in Canada. You are getting a tax deduction on the money you invest out of your home equity so to say that they show people to deduct their mortgage is a little misrepresenting on their part. And you're right, the wealthy do use leverage and you can get wealthy doing it, however it isn't for everyone as WFG would like you to think. Also they are investing in much more secure and effective products. And just so you know...80-90% of those wealthy people became that way from property and real-estate. Please find me one person who became a millionaire from owning a WFG style product. |
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financeguy Guest Member
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Yes you are correct that should have read "you get a deduction for all or part of your mortgage INTEREST payment" so I apologize for that. That is 100% legal in Canada, and many of the wealthy use an interest only payment making the whole payment tax deductible. Read the book "the Smith Manouver" for more info. WFG is very wise in explaining to middle income Canadians how the wealthy think. Many middle income Canadians have nowhere to begin (like myself), so they use the home equity and WFG techniqies as a place to start. Because WFG showed me how to remove bad debt and shoot my score to over 800, I am now able to borrow funds while I'm deveoping a multi-family property that I will sell (this part is my own plan not WFG). This is IN ADDITION to all the WFG techniqies I am using. You see without WFG i had no place to begin and no bank would ever look at me. Now I have net worth (and the bank loves the value of my UL as part of that) , so I took the next step. WFG started me off on this path. Without them I would still be in a run down apartment complaining about why I can't get ahead. My first million is possible in the not too distant future, but that's because I choose to earn it. Of course this is not for everyone, but WFG uses a great know your client process before even recommending any techniqies to clients. Some people are conservative while others just want to get ahead, that's why WFG has soo many providers. Perhaps things have improved since you were with them? Perhaps your office wasn't fully trained as yet? |
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wfgsucks
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They do push UL on everyone and that doesn't work for all either. The method you speak of about using your home equity isn't anything new and many financial firm will show you how to do that when it is something right for you. And in your case I can tell it is because you seem like a sharp person and have used the methods to invest in something that will make you money. This is not the case for the majority of their clients, especially the ones who may have used their home equity to dump into a large UL which is totally wrong in my opinion and I'm sure many financial advisors would agree. Its too much of a cookie cutter approach and that is my issue with it. But good luck to you in your property endeavors because I believe if you continue doing what you are doing you will achieve your goals. I currently work for a property investment firm and I have seen it happen to people first hand. If you want to discuss that side of things by all means you can send me a private message. |
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financeguy Guest Member
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Sure I'll PM you to see what that is all about. I used to think UL was the wrong product until I learned how it worked and used it myself (and how my lender liked to see it!). It's a complex product but WFG gave me the education to use it properly. It is a great product for those who have a hard time disciplining themselves to invest monthly (that was me at first). I have since gotten so used to my monthly UL payment I have forgotten about it. Of course, normally you would not leverage your entire home equity into a UL (maybe a small amount to begin generating returns), it is just a part of a complete tax advanted family plan. WFG uses UL, RRSP, TFSA, Leverage, tax efficiency, good debt and education as part of a complete plan. WFG actually does not push UL on everyone (they have tons of term product) if it is not right for them. UL is actually the best product in Canada for its tax advantages, and WFG uses them in addition to TFSA (about 11 years ago when UL first came out the wealthy were overfunding their UL to get lots of tax free returns, but Revenue Canada soon put limits on that!). Look at this scenario: The cost of insurance gets paid with pretax dollars earned within the UL policy return itself. For example, if you were paying $100/month for a 30 yr term product, you would have to earn upwards of $150 at your job to get that $100 in hand after taxes, etc. With UL the return could give you that $100 before tax to pay the full cost or most of the cost of insurance (basically, you didn't even pay for the insurance cost!). You then take the $100 you would have spent on term and reinvest it somewhere (put it back in the UL if you are not disciplined enough to keep from spending it). On top of this, when you go to take out your money from the UL as a monthnly income payment you use a bank to take out a policy loan (loans are not taxable in Canada) that gets paid back when you die, so in essence you get your money out of there tax free (no wonder lenders love to see UL!!). On top of all of that you have coverage for life not 30 years. There is a great book by Ben Baldwin called :The New Insurance Investment Advisor" that explains this in great detail. It is an American book, but the concept is exactly the same and I'm sure a Canadian version is in the works as we speak. WFG advisors are awesome at teaching you about this product. Do you see why WFG empowers people? Its all about education. Money, taxes, UL, etc are complicated and WFG offers education to those who want it. The government would not even allow UL if if was so bad. It is highly represented in the government exams agents must pass, so that must tell you something. |
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dawn1104
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I highly doubt this company has anything to worry about http://www.worldfinancialgroup.com/ |
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wfgsucks
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Well you sure proved everyone wrong by posting a link to "their" website. How come nobody else thought of that? |
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rolo512
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I've been following this topic and I find the debates to be very thoughtful guys, However, there is of course always two sides to a coin. Writing as an average joe (with a BSc degree) who have just had "first contact" by a WFG representative. I find their idea of business to be somewhat interesting. Correct me if I am wrong, at a more personal level, the cost of going into this self-employment WFG business is ONLY(emphasized) approximately $500.00 in liquid asset- for application, courses, books, license, police check, and probably a small list of random names and contacts that I have to provide them, correct? The way I look at it is that, considering a course in University costs around $600.00 in Canada, am I unjustifiably wrong to approach the WFG application/experience as taking a course in University? My line of reasoning is that, at the end, the minimal cost for application yields knowledge in business and personal finance/investment that I've never had before. Plus, I get to go to their weekly trainings for free, right? So in the long run, am I not only paying $500.00, and am benefiting from a whole line of trainings and education? ----------------------------------- Question: several people did mention that there are Hidden Fees (ie. monthly fees- something called C&O fees). Can someone confirm with certainty the validity of this fee? (Any insider knows?) |
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wfgsucks
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Well I can see where you are coming from with your comparison that its cheaper thats a University course, however, you are not dealing with people's lives and finances when taking a University course. And also you are not losing credibility with you friends and family and having them ignore your calls because you are trying to "hire" them into some scheme (which it is) i might add. Just do some research to find out where the top leaders actually make their money. Its not from this great business they run, its from charging all their agents for conventions/trips and so on. Trust me, I was there so I know all the ins and outs and thats why I left. |
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rolo512
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wfgsucks, thanks for the response, now I have a much better feel of what's going on. So basically the whole problem with this company revolves around "unethical and immoral issues" that will likely transform me into an unethical person (more or less) if I wanted to make big bucks in this company right? But do I possibly have to go that route? Also, when you were in the company, couldn't I just sell the services (Match-up and personal sales) to achieve and sustain income? Is it mandatory that I kill and slaughter every relationship I know? And returning to my original question, do you know if there are any hidden fees? |
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wfgsucks
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Rolo512, I totally understand where you are coming from . The issue with them is if you just want to be a personal producer then you will be very hard pressed to make a good living. As a licensed associate you are at a 28% contract level (that is 28% of 84% of the commissions paid to the field because wfg takes the first 16% as administration costs). This is the second lowest commission structure in the industry behind primerica (which is the company that all the top reps used to be with before WMA which is now WFG). Now they will say they have the best commission structure but thats based on recruiting to become a marketing director. Thats the top contract and its 67% of that 84% percent i spoke of earlier. If you want to do personal production you can start at many other firms that will pay you 70% of 100% (that is key) to start, meaning you will not need to recruit and ruin any relationships. And to be honest you will learn much more if you pick the right firm. And depending on where you live, I can give you a list of the firms that many ex WFG reps have gone to and done very well. Now as far as hidden costs, yes there are many. You will have to pay a monthly fee for your email and website use. And also there are many trips and training that you will be attending that you will have to pay for (registration fees, travel and hotels.) They have these quarterly and NEVER train about products rather focus on recruiting. And lastly, the trips that you "win" for being the best, well you actually have to pay for those too. Remember, all the training they ever do is about recruiting and never about financial services and how to do better for your clients. They will always say "get the list" because you are helping those people. The reason they say get the list is because many reps don't stick around and they want to make sure they have their contacts. Even if you try the business and then realize its not for you, they will still contact your list and try to recruit them saying thats what you wanted before you left because it just wasn't the right time for you or something like that. Everyone I know who has left has become much more successful then they were at WFG. The people still at WFG will tell you that those people are failures and gave up on their families. But I'll be honest with you, I was the top personal producer in my office for 2 years in a row not crack $35,000 per year. I have all the plagues and awards if you would like proof. |
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rolo512
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Thank you for you always speedy replies wtfsucks. I'll reconsider and do "additional" research before I step forward this time, I am simply seeking for another sword to duel wield with (my BSc degree in psychology being my first blade). Completely assuming all your suggestions are valid - since i am not completely clear with the contract level percentage system you mentioned - and that I am to work in a legit and ethical manner; it appears that I'll need to work the extra mile to achieve the same success as compared to other firms. All the hidden costs you mentioned seems unreasonable also. I'll bring up a complete set of questions to my friend during the next scheduled appointments at WFG. If you have any suggestions, please feel free and enlighten me a bit more By the ways, I live in Toronto, and company suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time. |
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wfgsucks
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It's good to hear that you will make sure to do the right research. Let me just tell you this, I got into the business to educate myself and to help people. At the time WFG made me think thats what I would be doing but I learned over time that I was actually making things more difficult for people because many were joining and believing that they would become wealthy in this industry. The unfortunate reality is that the industry isn't for everyone as they would like people to believe. The high income claims are not true. And also...they do say that you will need an average of 100 AMA's (meaning recruits) to get to the top contract level of MD (marketing director). Many people don't want to recruit those kinds of numbers. I will try to get a list of other firms for you very soon. And as far as the questions you bring up in the next meeting, please be advised that the answers you receive may have a spin on them or your questions may be brushed off. I actually fly out to Toronto about once a month on business and if you really like I can answer any questions you have regarding both the mutual fund industry, WFG, other firms, or the exempt market products industry which i feel is much more effective for clients. Let me know and I can make time for you. And please don't take that as a way of me trying to recruit you to any other firm. My career now involves me overseeing financial firms who deal with exempt products and I train them. I am in no way a recruiter but i can still help. And i am only offering that because I want to make sure that people don't have to go through what I did for a couple of years and almost ruin my career and credit due to all the expenses i incurred and I know many other with WFG do. Let me know if you want more information, otherwise take care and I wish you all the best in your career. |
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oilerfan
|
I'll been reading this thread throughout the whole day. Have considered the opinions of the pro-WFG and Anti-WFG persons, having read a few of the articles posted, I am beginning to think that this company has some good information and can be valuable to people(assuming their financial conditions are right) but is not a company worth working for. I had been approached by a WFG rep and have seen the presentation, talked to a QMD(was beginning to buy in), and have paid the $125 AMA fee. What my plan is, so far, is to take the course($265) that teaches the new recruits the methods used by the company to optimize the use of money(the leveraging, debt reduction, saving methods, etc.) for educational purposes. My question is to "wfgsucks": Will taking this course provide me with a fairly good education of how all these different types of accounts work(HELOCs, Open investments, etc) and the various ways I can use these accounts to save/invest efficiently? Is it worth taking??? Keep in mind that: 1. I am finishing up my degree in school(am 24 yrs old) 2. Will be entering workplace soon(starting career) 3. Don't really know too much about all these financial services 4. Am under the impression that taking this course will hopefully result in me making good decisions with my money(aka future money, am still poor student) Am looking forward to your reply and I thank you for your time. |
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rolo512
|
oilerfan, Firstly, I am not really writing to answer the questions cause I didn't take the courses. I have several suggestions though. I am writing simply because I am on the exact same boat academically with you (23 yrs myself graduating this June)- plus I also see similarity in our lack of insurance/financial background. So please don't mind me for my comments. After speaking with wtfsucks from the last couple of posts and consulting several relatives and friends who worked at primerica, Amway, and several MLM firms in Canada; I can be sure to tell you that the short-run initial cost is minimal, but the long-run investment (money you give them) will be a whole lot. The one example they keep on giving me during the talk is that "Why only have one bullet in your gun, when you can have two bullets in it as backup? What if your first bullet missed the target, then you're dead meat?" But let me ask you, what about professionalism? Are we going to put our 4-5 years of university education to a waste? I haven't even finished constructing my first bullet, and I'm making my second one already... so even if I have a machine gun, it'll always be shooting blanks and not killing the target. (hope you understand my illustration. lol) The point to keep in mind is, the representatives are initially biased, and the presentations are meant to hype you up for their business scheme, their trainings will seem educational and beneficial; however, we're not specialized in insurance/mutual funds. I totally understand where you're coming from, the training can be used for personal education; however, as soon as they ask you to pay more, step out of it. |
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wfgsucks
|
Hello oilerfan, Sorry for the late response but I just read your post today. When you're asking about the course and whether it will help you in the future, the answer to that is not really. The course is a government course so its mostly theory and never about application. I'm not saying it won't help at all but as far as applying anything yourself that is usually learned on the job in the industry. Which is another reason why I don't think WFG is the place to do that. Their techniques mostly focus on recruiting and only slightly on the financial services aspect of the business. There were agents in the office I was at who had been there much longer than me and did not really know what they were doing when it came to putting together a proper plan for clients. This scared me because these people were dealing with people lives and retirements. And as for the other response to your post, I totally agree. The presentations are hype because they do need to continue the hiring flow in order to keep the business running. Also the initial minimum cost seems reasonable but you are in for a big surprise if you go forward with them. The last year I was there my costs were over 20,000 because of trips/conventions/trainings/hotel/etc. And the funny thing is, all of these were exactly the same (to try to hype people up). They were all exactly the same. And a professional firm would not have Thunderstruck blasting while people who know nothing about the industry are spending their hard earned money to go there (while some are dancing on table while their personal lives are going down the drain). To refer to your analogy....this won't add any bullets to your gun, and in-fact, you might have to sell your gun to pay your bills. I was very close to ruining everything in my life because of the belief in the company. They have a very good way of making people stick it out. (almost a brainwashing). Guys I just want to make sure you are very careful with what you get yourself into. And one last thing, DO NOT give your list to the MD in the office. You will regret if you decide to leave, and even if you stay. The biggest thing they say at those conventions is when you hire someone "GET THE LIST". They spin it as though you are helping them because they don't know what is good for their family. However, its really so there are more names for them to contact because chances are the new recruit will leave. YOu guys can contact me anytime you want and I can give you further details. Remember, no matter what you are told, this isn't me just being vengeful or anything like that. I have a great career now and make more money than I even need, while helping people just like I wanted to. I just want to make sure people dont make the same mistakes I did and ruin any credibility they have with their network of friends and family. I still have people who will not talk to me and its sad but thats the case. |
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oilerfan
|
Thanks a bunch for your inputs rolo and wfgsucks. Everything I was being told seemed too good to be true... and of course it ends up being just that. The more I looked into WFG, the more shaky my confidence was becoming in the whole operation. Again thanks alot for the honest advice. Blantant honestly about this company seemed pretty hard to come by. Lastly, if one was interested in finding out about all the various vehicles in which you can put your money into and how you can make it work for you, where/how would you go about doing that? Or is the best thing to do, go to a pro financial planner at a bank or something and go about it that way??? |
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izsanni
|
could someone tell me how I could best handle WFG? A friend of mine came to beg I do the kids RESP with WFG, I innocently started the education savings plan (under heritage plan). Now I want to reduce the monthly contribution and the WFG is writing that I will have to lose the $5,000 I have contributed so far as membership fee. This is a Govt product that is administered free in the Bank. I need advice pls. |
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izsanni
|
could someone tell me how I could best handle WFG? A friend of mine came to beg I do the kids RESP with WFG, I innocently started the education savings plan (under heritage plan). Now I want to reduce the monthly contribution and the WFG is writing that I will have to lose the $5,000 I have contributed so far as membership fee. This is a Govt product that is administered free in the Bank. I need advice pls. |
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wfgsucks
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Hey oilerfan, Just got your post about where to go for that advice. If you are in Calgary or Edmonton, I can put you in touch with some industry contacts I have there. These are successful people who are very educated in the industry and will be able to guide you with whatever you would like to learn. If you're interested send me a personal message and I give you some contact information for myself and anyone else who may be able to help out. Oh and just so you know, I'm not saying that to gain a client or anything like that. My job is actually a financial firm representative for the products that my company offers. So my job is to actually train partner firms who offer these products. Take care and I look forward to hearing from you. |
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cowgirl
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First of all I'm humbled by my WFG experience in that it took me 3 almost 4 years to understand what exactly it was. If you read my past posts...I did everything I was supposed too and believed. Now don't get me wrong.."some" of the products that WFG markets for the product providers are great...however some of the people and the concept of recruiting...not so great. I resigned from WFG in November ; yes I did spend alot of money to become licensed and attended conferences and training. At the end of the day I still did not feel that the information I had was enough to say I was a Financial Planner and do plans for families. Yes like I said I agree that some of the concepts they promote work..takes discipline ..I am grateful for the education I received on these concepts. The office fees you have to pay ..the fees for this & the fees for that...well in 3 years I can tell you I earned nothing. And yes to those of you that support WFG it did take me 2 years to get licensed as I was working full time & it took me 4 attempts to pass my provincial...but my trainer promised me a referral fee for referring people to him when I wasn't licensed...my trainer was a friend before WFG...I built my team and my new trainees were told the same..(trainers are not supposed to offer referral $ I found out later) needless to say none of us were paid. The total for each of us was over $1000.00. My trainer was full time, I wasn't so the MD said we have to help the people that have made the full time commitment first..and once you are full time you will get the same. They tell you to associate with the successful people ..sure thats ok but are you supposed to forget about your "friends" along the way. Does friendship now become if you are in WFG we are friends..if you are getting recruits and bringing in business for me..we are friends.. Well I learned a hard lesson on friendship. Integrity and Friendship are huge for me and the lesson that I learned through all of this is that WFG steals peoples Integrity and ruins friendships. I guess you can buy new friends...the WFG way... Recently a girl I know in Calgary got a call from someone at WFG re: a job. I told her ask questions..if they are offering you a job you have to pay for..don't do it. When i got involved I knew it was a business opportunity it wasn't presented to me as a job..but a chance to make a difference in my life & others . I like that..I do NOT like having to recruit to make it... Yes the mission statement is no family left behind..and I still do have some positives that I take with me from WFG..the "BASIC" information/education I received helped..I know more now about HELOC, RRSP's & Life Insurance. However I am humbled at myself for having to eat my words on what I initially thought and realized that unless I recruited anyone & everyone...I would not make it in the WFG world...and ya know what...I'm ok with that...today ! Last edited on Mon Mar 15th, 2010 01:29 am by cowgirl |
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cowgirl
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To WFG Sucks... I walked the same path as you...I tried it....I'm not as good as expressing my thoughts & experiences as you but I can tell you this.. You are telling it 100% like it is in the WFG world. Thanks for your posts..hopefully we can help those that really want the information to think twice before they drink the WFG kool-aid like I did.. I truly thought I was doing a good thing...but turns out...I was wrong I am alot happier now that I am WFG-free (and more in debt with the HELOC and Investment Loan..and etc , etc) There were lots of fees..sure I was able to claim most of them on my taxes but still I will not recruit..that is 100% MLM !!! Thanks again for your great & HONEST feedback.. |
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scamh8er
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scamfreetown wrote: I met a girl at a club that does sports and fun stuff, she said that she was a “financial advisor” and she asked me if I wanted to visit her at work and see what she does. I went and there was a meeting or some sorts of a lecture where everyone was dressed well and had fake smiles just like the fake money they BRAGGED about. I had no idea what was going on but I tried to believe that girl because she looked trustable, then I talked with one of the marketing directors. |
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scamh8er
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reading this for the first time made me feel like i posted it myself since I had the same experience right down to the smallest detail only it wasn't some girl I met in a bar but someone who recruited me from the workplace I agree they really suck big time, I lost my $125 but hey that's a pretty small price to pay to see a person's true color, guys there's something to be thankful here at least we didn't become instruments for these ruthless liars in scamming even more people like our close friends and families, see that's why they were so obsessed in diving into our contacts and phone books |
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BA
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Would you agree that no matter where you go there people you trust and people you don't? World Financial Group, like the military, or any other corporation are no different - they are a cross-section of North American society (GOOD & BAD). Do you label the whole corporation of just the person? World Financial Group has been around in Canada for nine years, 25 years in the States. It is here to stay. What do they do? They teach common sense financial strategies that the rich have known for decades to the masses. They connect those who wish to use the products offerred by companies like Franklin Templeton, Equitable Life, TD Bank, RBC, Manulife, IA Clarington, Transmerica Life etc., to those companies. If you went into TD and asked for a loan to invest in IA Clarington or Franklin Templeton, do you think they would talk to you? Do you think any one company has all the best investment opportunities that fit everyone's needs? Because World Financial Group deals with the entire financial industry, they have no stake in where your money goes. They can place it where it does what you want. They are only supposed to sell to those that want to buy or recruit those that want to join. Everyone has the right to say No. "No I don't want to save money". "No I don't want to work hard discovering what families need to make my living." Just say "no thank you" without getting so negative and bitter. Personally I think if you want to do your research, talk to the companies that deal with World Financial Group. Some of these companies have spent alot of money checking out World Financial Group and have staked their reputation on dealling with them. Some of these companies have been around for 50 or even 125 years and they believe in what World Financial Group is trying to accomplish. I would be glad to give anyone the phone numbers or websites to help them do that research. Any questions, just ask...nicely. |
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scamh8er
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......just read what people have to say about WFG on this discussion board. Both (ex) insiders and other victims. |
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BA
|
Errors & Omission Insurance Fees (E&O) are an industry standard for all Life Insurance licensed representatives that is regulated both provincially and federally to protect the client, the agent and the company. The same is true for the License. These are the same no matter what company you represent in the Insurance Industry. World Financial Group mentors individuals in acheiving the licensing standard, they are mandated to have in place. As with the rest of the industry, compliance is mandatory for consumer protection. E & O is like Malpractice insurance for Doctors. The cost of the license is usually handled at a college that has a contract with World Financial Group and the provincial government. The Associate Membership agreement is $125 and it goes to giving the individual access to corporate e-mail, financial assessment tools, weekly training by those successful in the business as well as from the product providers, discounts on training seminar from people like Tom Hopkins (world renoun salesmanship guru), Les Hewitt (author of Power of Focus) and many other guest speakers as well as a dedicated team of product provider contracts and assistance. Everything you need to succeed, except the drive and belief that you can, is provided. There is an infrastructure that is set up just to make sure that agents can focus on helping families without the headache of runniing the business by yourself. World Financial Group is not just a job. It is an opportunity to build a business for yourself based on helping people, without going into the kind of debt you would with a franchise. |
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BA
|
From what I've read on this site, the negative ex-insiders and victums are the ones that either failed at the business or failed to get their questions answered. Because they have failed they are spending their time blaming instead of accepting responsibility for their own lack of understanding. Instead of pointing fingers, ask questions. Get answers and accept the consequenses of your own decisions. The industry dictates that you cannot be paid until you are licensed. That rule has nothing to do with World Financial Group. With a license and World Financial Group strategies, training and support, you can make good money in the financial services industry whether you recruit or not. Whose decision is it to spend anything more then the membership agreement and licensing fees? The individual. In fact, if the opportunity doesn't suit you, whose decision is it to do more then use the strategies for your own finances? This site seems to be full of people that are afraid to face their own part in their own failures and are set on blaming others for their decisions. World Financial Group is a great business opportunity for the right PERSON. Their concepts and strategies due to their alliances with multiple industry giants make them the ideal place for anyone that wants to improve their own finances. Not everything is for everyone! If it wasn't for you, get over it. At least you didn't make the same mistake buying a franchise in which you would have spent tens of thousands of dollars to get into. |
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BA
|
it is illegal for banks to offer anything other then GICs & mutual funds in their branches. Their returns right now are less then inflation. If you want to guarentee a loss due to tax & inflation, go ahead and use the bank. You will also need to speak to an insurance representative or possibly an independant financial planner to get a complete plan. Financial Planners are usually fee based so you'll need money to make money. Unless you have alot of money, banks won't spend much time with you either. They certainly won't educate you on how money works. That's not their mandate. The Banks' mandate is to make money for their shareholders, not the individual. World Financial Group has the connections to do everything - just look for an agent with more experience. I work with one that has six designations in the financial industry and 26 years experience. He had his own successful financial business and brought his clientelle to World Financial Group because of concepts, strategies and industry contracts. This individual is headhunted by all the industry giants and won't leave World Financial Group because he can do more for people within their structure then he can do anywhere else. World Financial Group agents charge nothing to sit down and educate families on how money works. It's like the old saying, "give someone a fish and they'll eat for a day, teach them to fish and they can eat for a lifetime". Sit down, talk to them, learn and ask alot of questions. Say No to the recruiting if that is what you want. |
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scamh8er
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Better Business Bureau? |
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Green Summary
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Finally, I got some useful information to answer my questions toward WFG, but it's kinda late - I paid $125 already. I admit that i am greedy, so I've ripped off. Again, should think about it - "Money wouldn't grow in the tree." |
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scamh8er
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Well these guys are good at it aren't they? And their argument is you put in this amount of money and if you didn't do any work (for them) you shouldn't be expecting anything to happen. Well that's just exactly what you'll get for $125, "NOTHING!" |
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Green Summary
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Strongly agree! I am in the situation that I've paid them $125. (very unwillingly) However, I am not gonna paid even a penny more to them. After hearing two presentations, I found that I was even more confused. I don't know what are they doing over there. They just keep saying money grows so easy, even easier than if you buy the lottery. I still believe education should take in universities or colleges, not those unknown organization. |
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scamh8er
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Consider yourself lucky and wise for losing just $125 to these crooks, just imagine how these guys will suck you dry if you hadn't realized they're nothing bust a bunch of bogus impostors whose motto is "money for nothing" |
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Green Summary
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Today I attended to the group training - just want to tell them my schedule has been fully booked till i finished my CGA program. It might take another couple years... I am making an excuse. Actually, I don't mind to go to their presentation as long as it is free and i have time, but i was told to paid another $50 for books in the next training. What do they mean? They said the training is so good, and those presentations are wonderful; however, they ask you to bring more friends to attend next presentation... I doubt there will be sites left in a "WONDERFUL PRESENTATION". Maybe I can earn "BIG" money as they metioned after i get my licence, but how long i will get the licence? how much work i have to spend to achieve it. I don't know. It don't sound easy as they described. I don't think i can manage my job, two courses and this. I might just fail to do everything after all... Therefore, when they said another $50 for books, i told them i felt stress out. I need to postpone the training. One thing i found interesting in WFG is that most of the ppl in training are not knowing what's actually going on. They might be just pretending as i did, or they were attracted by the "MONEY SAYING". That makes me think of "1984". |
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BA
|
You have alot of good questions. The course is an industry standard, set up to pass the Life License Qualification Program Exam with the Provincial Insurance Council. It is a basic introduction to what insurance and insured investments are about. Concepts and strategies that World Financial Group uses are taught in field training based on the needs of clients. You should be doing both the field training and the course at the same time to get the maximium educational benefit. Some of the concepts are also taught in free classes. Ask your mentor all your questions and if they dont know the answers they should be able to get them for you. You are free to ask anyone at the office for help at any time. Maybe you should finish your formal education at the same time as learning from World Financial Group. The two dont have to be exclusive. The costs for the course has just been lowered as well so there is less of a risk for a new person. Ask whomever you are talking to at the company. If you arent happy with their answers, ask someone else. Human beings have a tendency to fill in the blanks with information that sounds right whether the information is true or not. Ive read alot of half truths on this site and to the unexperienced, can be very misleading in either direction. World Financial Group is neither a scam or a golden goose. It is a company that is trying to revelutionize the way people are served in the financial industry. People filter all experiences through what they know. It just seems natural to be critical of anything different. Those in the industry already, dont want to acknowledge that there is a portion of the population that need what World Financial Group offers (because they dont understand it). We live in a society that has suffered financially and as such are natrually skeptical. What do you expect to find at World Financial Group |
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BA
|
I understand your statement about college and university...that is what our experience and society has taught us for generations. College and University courses are great at teaching theory - what government and banks want you to know. They don't teach outside of that structure. I have met alot of what I phrase as "educated stupid". They are so full of theory and have no clue how to apply it. Where is the common sence? Think of World Fiancial Group as teaching how to apply the theory. The ideal situation would be to have both, wouldn't it? If you want to know what that $125 is really for, it is an administrative fee to connect you to trails, commissions, over-rides, renewals, stock options, training, any recruits you may attract, the computer network, head office infrastructure, personal business you do with clients, product partner resources (contracts with close to 40 companies), on-line supply ordering systems and both on-line & office training, etc. World Financial Group is an international company, (in Canada for 12 years, in the States much longer and now in China for 2 years). Our parent company, Aegon is located in The Netherlands. There has to be a way to track what you do so that you get paid. You only see the benefit of the $125 administrative fee if you decide to do something with the company, like work. They have done their part by connecting you to all the tools and resources you need to succeed (evident by your WFG code), it is up to you to use the tools. Every year the tools get better. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". The ones that refuse to drink are the ones that are the most critical on the web! Many companies have a fee for coming on board. I worked with a security company as one of my first jobs back in the early 1980s . My first paycheck was docked over $200 for a uniform. Same goes with a deposit on an appartment. If you wreak the place or even just leave it a mess, you loose the money. Have you ever rented a car? Your credit card is taken and if you get a speeding ticket, a flat tire or fail to refill the tank or return it late, your deposit is kept or you are charge more aren't you? |
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scamh8er
|
Amazing how much connection with basic financial institutions can be established by WFG for such a small amount of $125. My question is, how come WFG cannot establish a connection with the most reputable business institutions themselves, say for example "THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU" |
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me11ss
|
You ppl make me laugh. Is it laziness, or what? Are you one of those ppl that doesn't have the ability to analyze a situation or opportunity for themselves? I'd hate to see you grocery shopping! 'OMG, look at the fat content! Are they trying to kill me?!?!? Why didn't they tell me that info on the FRONT of the box!' Then you shoot off your mouth to everyone around you, taking the whole situation and twisting it with your ignorance and volatility. You haven't a clue, do you? It is funny how quickly and easily some ppl jump to conclusions. I can almost tell you could never do this, because you are too bitter and aren't willing to put in hard work to build a better life for yourself, and others. Were you promised a Ferrari? Well you shouldn't have been, because that isn't a very likely goal. To be financially independent and show you how to use your money more wisely? That is what we do. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. Are there loose cannons? FOR SURE! In every industry there are loudmouths and blowhards! Get all of the facts...ie. you usually have to read a book from cover to cover to find out what the story is about. Funny you are jumping to conclusions about WFG.... It is something like giving a review of a McLaren F-1...it can get you there quicker and more comfortably, but at first glance you don't like the color of the car or the person driving it. WFG is the vehicle that we drive to help ppl's financial siuations...if you don't know anything about it, don't knock it. You encountered someone who was less than thorough...there are ppl like that in every aspect of life. The banker sure didn't mind letting me pay through the nose year after year, paying compound interest day after day, month after month, year after year. The insurance agent didn't mind selling me a policy that gave my wife less than 3 years' worth of peace of mind if I died... My mind is at ease now...I have the coverage I need and my future monetary needs are being worked on...now I've decided that I want to show ppl how they can get out of the traditional sinkholes and get back on their feet... My family now have some breathing room and are able to do some renos and not worry about how we are going to pay for our kid's college education... Keep on letting the banks and the insurance companies short-change you, that's your decision. |
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me11ss
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ONE WORD: IF YOU EXPECT TO PAY A BIT OF MONEY AND NOT DO ANY WORK, THAT IS CALLED LAZY! Sorry, in this industry, you getting rewarded for your efforts, nothing else. Nothing is handed to you. Keep going to college, or university. There no guarantee of a job when you get out. You just paid thousands of dollars for what? Talk about spending money for nothing!! Good luck with the student loans... |
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scamh8er
|
Three words "Better Bussiness Bureau"! |
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scamh8er
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Better Business Bureau! hahahahahaha! |
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ellistev
|
University is definitely a great investment. |
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bigfoot
|
I need to talk to you about WFG, world financial god or world family group, a sofisticated bussiness cult. I am unable to PM you. |
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